Jim Murphy – 2009 Webchat on Scotland’s Future in the United Kingdom
The text of the webchat with Jim Murphy, the then Secretary of State for Scotland, on 8 December 2009.
Quintin Oliver: Sitting here in Belfast, and pondering a Scottish referendum on independence (however unlikely), where would separation leave Ulster Unionism? Cleaving to England alone? or maintaining the East-West link and waving yet more Saltires over here?
Jim replies: Hello Quintin
Thanks for your message.
Support for Scotland staying part of the UK has increased in recent months. It seems that the longer the current administration in the Scottish Government are in power the lower the support for their policy of separation becomes. If there were ever to be a referendum the polls show that most Scots support Scotland remaining part of the Union. So your concerns about Scotland’s place in the UK are shared by most Scots.
john paterson: Can you please tell me why on earth we still have a Scotland Minister and what does the role entail, given we have a Scottish Government? thank you
Jim replies: We made a mistake in making the job of Secretary of State for Scotland a part time role. Wales and Northern Ireland have full time Cabinet Ministers and Scotland is no less important than Wales and Northern Ireland. At a time of the recession it is crucial that Scotland has a voice in the Cabinet speaking up for Scotland. But ultimately it’s not for me to decide the value of the role. It’s for the people of Scotland. They will be the judge.
JIM LAMB: I would like to see Scotland along with Wales And Northern Ireland.Go COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT from England.That means that they pay thier own pensions,social security payments,medical care,education.EVERYTHING A independent country has to pay for it’s OWN people.A mirgration system set up that a visa would have to be sort for people that want to live or work in England.But would exclude any unemployment or social bennifits. All health care would have to be paid for.This would apply to ALL imigrants to England.The English people are fed up of having to pay taxes to countries in this so called United Kingdom,that want independece,but still want billions of assistance from England.What free education does Scotland boast about,when the English pay for it?And when Scots go to English uni’s they get it free.When English students go to uni’s in Scotland they have to pay.That is rubbish and needs to stop.The English people want to be COMPLETLY INDEPENDENT,the United Kingdom needs to be disbanded as soon as possible.James A Lamb.
Jim replies: Thanks for getting in touch James but I don’t agree with your view. The Union of the United Kingdom is a great success and has seen us through difficult times in the past. At these difficult economic times we are stronger together. The UK is the most successful Union of Nations in the world and despite the cultural differences we still have so much in common. We are better together and our best days can still be ahead of us.
Ulysses: Why not have a devolved Parliament for the English?
Jim replies: That’s up to the people in the regions of England and we had a referendum on regional assemblies in the North East of England and they voted no. So that hasn’t gone any further.
Sam Harpendon: Isn’t there a tension in your white paper where on one hand further powers are being offered to Holyrood, but on another hand, you’re also seeking to take back a number of powers? What’s the message there?
Jim replies: Thanks Sam. The aim is to have the power exercised where it makes most sense. So we propose more financial powers for Edinburgh and further devolution in certain areas. You are also right to say some things are better being done again at a UK level which is why we are “re-reserving” them. The full list of proposed changes can be found at the Scotland Office website
Ian Gordon: If Scotland does separate from the rest of the UK, will you take back all the Scottish MPs who were assigned to seats in the rest of the UK just because they were safe seats?
Jim replies: Ian – Thanks. My view is that most people north or south of the border don’t really decide about someone in business, politics or any other fields based on whether you are Scottish or English. There are 400,000 English people in Scotland and I think 800,000 Scots in England. Both countries are better because of that.
kenn: Hi Jim With the PMs announce on Monday that more frontline services are to be available online, what investments are planned to resolve lagging Scottish broadband infrastructure in rural areas to ensure we can avail of these services? – Kenn
Jim replies: Kenn – I was asked about this in the Commons recently and said that no one should be excluded from super-fast broadband because of geography or income. More information on government plans can be found at the Digital Britain website
ross mclean: DO YOU THINK IT’S OKAY TO LOCK CHILDREN UP IN DUNGAVEL? WHAT IS THE UK GOVERNMENT DOING TO END THIS SICKENING PRACTICE?
Jim replies: Ross. This is an important issue. I have previously said that no one gets involved in politics to lock families up which is why we are trying to do something different by encouraging families to return home voluntarily. I hope that this is successful. But as I said when I announced this new approach there is a difficult issue about what you do about those people who simply refuse to leave the UK.
Adam Lipman: Why should Scotland leave the union? Do you not believe it is beneficial for the whole country, not just Scotland, to stay together. After all the investment and subsidies the UK as a whole has put into Scotland, you want to leave when time get a little tough. I heard Alex talking about North Sea oil? one trillion pounds worth. The UK, not Scotland, pumped huge amounts of money into exploration and drilling for this oil. Why does Scotland deserve this when it is just about to dry up? Does your party only focus on the 5 million people who live just over the border, who have been treated very well since the union was formed or do they even consider the 50 million souls just south of the border? We must stay together in an ever changing world for many reasons!!
Jim replies: Adam – I agree. I think that we all benefit from the four nations of the UK sticking together. We have so much in common and can achieve so much together in good times and in the more difficult economic times that we are now in. It makes sense economically and socially. Most Scots agree and I think most people across the UK know it is a good thing.
Jack Thompson: How will the Calman recommendations protect Scottish banking? Scottish banks are regulated from London, not Scotland and nothing in these proposals change that.
Jim replies: The crisis in banking isn’t caused by the constitutional arrangements of the UK, but by a failure in regulation. But what is clear is that it was only through the support of the British taxpayer that the Royal Bank and Bank of Scotland were saved. If Scotland had been independent, people accept these banks would have broken an independent Scotland.
Alistair Cook: Progressive politics should take power to the people. Why not more Devolved power? Devolution should be for people not a party.
Jim replies: Alistair – We do propose more power to be devolved and I would like to go further in giving more power to the people on control over their public services. Power shouldn’t just be about election times.
Jack Thompson: Are you saying that the people of Scotland will be able to elect their Secretary of State for Scotland or, decide for themselves if they even want the post? I know this is not a question on the White Paper but, I’ll take what I’m given.
Jim replies: Jack I don’t think we are about to directly elect a Secretary of State for Scotland. It’s really only Presidents and Mayors that are directly elected and that isn’t the system we have for our Cabinet-based system, either in the UK or Scottish Government.
Jack Thompson: One of the recommendations of the Calman Commission is to increase respect between Westminster and Holyrood. To date, you and your Government have spent a considerable amount of time putting down the SNP Government; in fact you spent most of your speech on this paper disparaging the SNP showing more respect to the Conservatives than to the SNP. Does this mean that your Government will show a greater deal of respect to the current Scottish Government? If so, how
Jim replies: I want a better relationship with the Scottish Government but it takes two willing parties and often that doesn’t happen. The Calman Commission suggested a better way of doing this and I think we should make progress. The public won’t forgive politicians who squabble in the same old way during the recession. So I think things should improve.
Jack Thompson: Thank you for that answer but, that means all of your arguments about staying together mean that when London experiences a serious market failure like the recession we all lose. How would these proposals help Scotland weather another economic storm?
Jim replies: The RBS was the biggest bank in the world and it was saved by taxpayers in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. The Calman Commission isn’t a plan to prevent global recession but it is a way of giving more power to the Scottish Parliament and having a much more accountable Parliament in Edinburgh.
Jack Thompson: The Government plans on reducing expenditure to Scotland by the same amount as the 10 pence on the pound tax plans raise or lower. Does that not mean that the tax raising powers are in fact worthless as ANY Scottish Government as they can only reduce the income in garners as opposed to raising more than the rest of the UK?
Jim replies: Jack, the Chancellor will make his announcements tomorrow in the Pre-budget Report but the new powers are about making the Parliament more accountable. At the moment the Scottish Parliament simply spends the money that the UK Government gives to it. In future it will have to decide on the size of its own budget. And because the decisions on the economy in Scotland taken by the Scottish government will impact on the tax income then there is a double accountability. 1. Accountable for a tax decision. 2. Accountable for economic decisions which affect employment and income through tax for the government.
Adan Lipman: why should we have a union. Does Scotland cost the UK as a whole (England specifically) more than it produces? Subsidies etc?
Jim replies: We all benefit in different ways from the Union of the United KIndom. The way in which public spending in the UK is decided is, as you know, through the Barnett formula and that has led to a 62 per cent real terms increase in government investment over the past decade in public services. However it is more expensive to run public services in Scotland. Scotland has only 10 per cent of the UK population but a third of the land mass and this is just one of the reasons why the services are more difficult to run in Scotland.
Sally: Why are you delaying taking forward the recommendations from the Calman Commission? Even Kenneth Calman said it could be done quickly and easily.
Jim replies: Sally. Thanks for your question. We are not delaying the work on Calman. We have produced our White Paper. The entire redesign of the way in which tax is paid in Scotland is an intricate issue which will require a huge amount of very detailed legal and technical work which we are now looking at. We are committed to introducing a Scotland Bill in the Commons early in the new Parliament.
Ross McLean: Jim – you haven’t done anything about child detention. I read this weekend about a ten year old girl locked up. That can’t be right under any circumstances. Can you act before the General Election to make something happen. It’s just not right.
Jim replies: Ross. We are trying to do things differently so that’s not a fair accusation. But in government you have got to try to design a system which provides help and support to those who need it. In an immigration process it’s inevitable that some people will be refused permission to stay. The big question is how do you support those who are willing to return home voluntarily and that is what we are trying to do. But the difficult question is what do you do in a situation where someone just point blank refuses to leave the UK.
Jack Thompson: Do you think that you can get all of the proposals in the White Paper through before the next General Election? As we all know Parliament’s time is running out, can you realistically make it?
Jim replies: Jack – One question at a time!
We won’t get it all through by the general election. We can make progress on better working relationships between the UK and Scottish Parliaments. I have met the Speaker of the Commons and the presiding Offcer of the Scottish Parliament about all of this.
On the financial powers, that will require a lot more work, and we will work hard on that. As I mentioned earlier we will introduce legislation to put our Calman plans into law after the general election.
Thanks to everyone for all their questions. Got to go now. Happy to try this again in the future.
Jim.
